[Sublatum]

Went over to Home Depot to find some free draining soil for my Bonsai. And I went over to the small bonsai section they had in the corner, and saw a bunch of Bonsai i have read the horror stories about on the forum. These poor guys were all dried out and dying, loads of rock glued to the tops of the soil. Clearly they weren't being cared for at all.

I would have never realized any of this if i hadn't been informed here. The good news was, didnt find anything there, and went to a large Bonsai Nursery a few miles away where the nice people there were to help me get everything i needed for my juniper.

Just thought i'd share the story!

[bonsaidad]

At least you have been able to see first hand the terrible conditions some trees can be in, but without the temptation of buying one.
You had prior knowledge of what to look for, but there are so many who don't, and end up wasting hard earned money on trees that will not survive for much longer if left like that.



Best regards BD Paul

[Fargus64]

Although I do agree about the rather questionable and unfortunate care that those tree receive, I still have a pretty strong feeling that “mallsai” are very valuable to bonsai as an art, and a community.

I have been on an intellectual journey as of late and I have indulged myself to many articles on several different sources across the Internet and in books. It seems that people forget that we are in fact involved in an art here, and I believe the “mallsai” helps us understand that. There are many forms of art and providing a finite example or definition of what art is really would defeat the grand purpose of it all. So I am not here to give anyone a select answer, but rather to open up a good question.

After seeing what most enthusiasts visualize being a disgrace to the hobby, a grand slap in the face, the “mallsai” shows us an extreme of the art. It makes us rethink what it is all about, and how much further things are, and could be developed in the art/hobby. (Whatever you like to call it)

Not only do they help us rethink the art, I think you could poll a great majority of the bonsai community and a good majority of them would say that their first encounter in the world of bonsai was in fact the “mallsai”. (Or Karate Kid) Yes, they may set some on the wrong foot, but their tribulations in the beginning are a great part of the learning process. (I know they were for me)

I guess I have always felt a partial sympathy with these “mallsai”, that they were not simply poorly cultivated trees. Some can even turn into pretty nice specimens (ask Keri-Wms about that )

Hopefully I have opened a can of worms here; I am interested in hearing other people’s opinions on the matter. Also I hope no one takes any offense as I have posted this simply for the hope of a civil and interesting discussion here.


Thanks,
Anthony

[Sublatum]

That was a well thought out response Anthony. I have to agree with you 100% about the role these plants will play in the art of bonsai. I am one of those many who received one for Christmas and it literally launched me into the hobby. Since it was a special gift to me i wanted to do all i can to keep i alive and well, so my research began. So i guess i can see your point, the Mallsai have a roll to play, and it is best not to be too jaded about such things. I hope i didn't come off as 'i'd never buy such a plant'. In fact i my initial reaction was to buy them all and try to save them myself.

[Heisei]

I don't blame you, Sub, if you did come off as sounding like you would never buy malsai. There is potential in everything, and there are also poor examples of bonsai out there that are not "malsai", in my definition of the word. I have voiced my opinion in another thread about malsai. You asked for it Anthony...

It's one thing to get someone into the hobby. Yes, I guess that's good. However, I don't like being lied to. The fact that these people have the audacity to label junipers as indoor trees really gets me angry. They know good and well that they are not; and they also know that most people just getting into this hobby want something they can keep indoors (on a desk at work, on the living room table as a conversation piece, ect..). They exploit that and blatantly lie to us. I know it is a business and the goal is to move product, but still, it irks me. It reminds me of when I had my saltwater reef tank (which I sadly had to part with recently due to money limitations...). I would go into a store and listen as people asked if they could keep a "nemo fish" in a bowl if they added some table salt to it. The clerk would say not quite, you need this kind of salt; then sell them the fish and the salt when they obviously had no idea what they were doing, and ignoring the fact that even if they managed the correct salinity, the fish would not survive in a tiny bowl with no filtration. Sure some of the responsibility has to lie with the consumer who should research before hand. Still, even if you have done no research, you should not be lied to just to move product.

The term mallsai to me doesn't have much to do with the trees. There is potential in most any tree, no matter who trained it prior to you. It is more a derogatory term I have come to use to describe the dealers who are essentially stealing peoples money by selling them something that will die even if you follow the instructions the sellers give. I never bought another thing from that store that sold that poor clownfish, and I will never again buy from a company that lies to me telling me I can keep a juniper inside, or glues stones over the top for shipping knowing that that will lead to the demise of the tree. I willing gladly pay a higher price from someone I know is telling me the truth. In the long run, you end up saving money that way anyway.

For as many people that were turned on to bonsai by mallsai dealers, I wonder how many were turned off forever as a result of frustration and death of their tree after doing everything they thought (and were told) was right.

[Fargus64]

I hope i didn't come off as 'i'd never buy such a plant'. In fact i my initial reaction was to buy them all and try to save them myself.

Nope, I didn't think that in the least bit.
I just wanted to open up a little discussion here, and I won't judge anyone for his or her responses, as I know for a fact that nearly everyone here on this forum has some great intent.

You asked for it Anthony...

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Heisei; I can see where you are coming from. As you may know though, people have turned every aspect of life into a business. It’s unfortunate, but evident in everything we do. The sometimes-shady dealers of the “mallsai” are usually in it to get some quick cash from unsuspecting people, and that is terrible, but what they don’t know is that they are also giving us some serious ammunition.

Considering humans in general have learned best through trial and error, and we generally tend to learn from our mistakes, we have a lot of power once we expose these people. Not only do they give us the chance to rethink the art as I stated before, they invigorate our passion to make better and far more awesome trees.

Yes, I know for a fact there are people who are turned away from the hobby after realizing that they have been duped, but I also still have the sentiment that they strengthen people’s drive, like it did to me.

My two cents,

Anthony

[Will Heath]

... I am interested in hearing other people’s opinions on the matter.

In Defense of the Mallsai



Will

[Fargus64]

Nice article Will.
Glad to hear we share some of the same thoughts.

Anthony

[bonsaidad]

I am not running down Malsai as they are in fact part of the learning curve of Bonsai, but rather the conditions that they are kept in.
I still have several Malsai from when i started, and after a re-pot into cat litter they are going from strength to strength, but its the unsuspecting beginner i feel sorry for who is told that "Juniper" is an indoor tree, or they buy it already dead, although showing signs of life.
These are the people who are caught out by unscrupulous vendors who claim to know about Bonsai!.

[Heisei]

These are the people who are caught out by unscrupulous vendors who claim to know about Bonsai!.

This is what really "grinds my gears" to quote Peter Griffin. While they may not know much about bonsai, in most cases I do believe that they know they are outdoor trees and still blatantly lie to us. I have nothing against the trees themselves. And yes, they do bring a lot of people into the hobby, and I guess that's good. However, that does not, in my opinion, give vendors the right to lie. They could sell the exact same tree and either give no information about it, in which case it is the buyers responsibility to do prior research (unless they ask the seller and get lied to) or at least give accurate information and I would have no problems with it. The Trees Are Not Bad! Only the lying insert bleep word heres that sell them. In the end it comes down to how you define Malsai. I define it as a derogatory term used to describe the seller. There is no such thing as a "bad" tree, only one that was not trained to your liking or does not follow popular conventions; which is why I don't really like the popular definition of Malsai. Hell most of the "malsai" I have seen are far better than my pitiful first attempt...

[KDodds]

There are a lot of parallels that can be drawn between the bonsai hobby and the marine fish keeping hobby, and this is one of them. Sure, you can go to a pet superstore, get the kit, and plunk "Nemo" in. Chances of succesfully keeping "Nemo" alive for more than a few days, fairly slim. But they're there, those "all-inclusive" kits, which are usually nothing of the sort. In the case of fish, you're talking about higher life forms, ones that have nervous systems, can feel pain, and, in the case of marine fishes, ones that are, by and large, wild caught, and you really do have to consider what effect that has on the wild environment. But, the similarities are still there. Plastic tank, poor equipment, and in all likelihood, already stressed livestock on the verge of dying. Many people enter the marine aquarium hobby in this fashion just as bonsai hobbyists may have entered the hobby through "mallsai". In both cases, it is actually the obligation of the seller to inform the consumer, and in both cases, the seller, through ignorance or willful deception, fails to do so. So, are these things, "bad things"? Well, yeah, no matter how you slice it, someone purchasing something should have a reasonable expectation of their purchased product "working" for an extended period of time. Most states in the US have lemon-laws specifically for this reason that do NOT apply solely to automobiles. So, yeah, the consumer is being bilked, and the product is being derided and misrepresented. Those are bad things. Subjectively, you can say that entry into the hobby is a good thing, or the early "weeding out" of those who really do not have an interest is a good thing, but that doesn't change the facts. As far as "mallsai" and their place in the art of bonsai goes, well, that's another thing entirely, and one that can't be argued from a logical standpoint since, as they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". When you start talking about bonsai as an art, you can take any position you want to on "mallsai" and still be correct since the subject then becomes a matter of opinion rather than fact. I do see the usefulness of "mallsai" in this argument as well; especially considering many, especially Juniperus, are examples of "trees" that are really growing in a mostly natural state, with little to no modification, other than pruning, having been done, in most cases. Beyond that, though, I'm not so sure there is much usefulness in the "art" of "mallsai". I personally see almost nothing artistic in the completely unnatural curves of the many Ulmus and Serissa and Ehretia offered, or the golf balls twisted into the braided Schefflera. For me, there is no art there. That is, of course, completely subjective. There are those who like, say, a Pollock or Warhol or Haring. My personal preference is for something that shows a bit more classical talent, however.

[subnet_rx]

This is really not a problem with the vendors. It's uneducated people buying a tree when they know nothing about bonsai. If they didn't buy, the vendors wouldn't be there. A real bonsai nursery must not be able to keep up with the volume or price point, because Home Depot is not opposed to better quality at the same price.

So, basically, mallsai is a cheap test for every bonsai owner. Do you want to learn about this? Or is an ornament for your desk. There has to be vendors out there that would satisfy the ornament on your desk customers. And I wouldn't want that to pre-bonsai trees raised with care. For the people that really want to learn about bonsai, it was a cheap entry fee into a world that is a lot more complex than they initially thought.

So, the system works. The main thing any real bonsai artist should be concerned about is easy access to good information. Books, online articles, etc. This should be one of the main objectives of any bonsai society that is struggling.

Ohh, anytime I see that someone "rescued a mallsai" I wince. You just promoted more poor quality bonsai trees to be put on the market. This is not unlike the pet world where people buy puppies at pet stores that usually get their puppies from puppy farms. Caring dog owner forums complain about these puppy farm sales all the time. It's heartbreaking to see the conditions of these places. Just like I'm sure it's heartbreaking to see the conditions that these bonsai are sold at.

[Joe Pelonio]

Ohh, anytime I see that someone "rescued a mallsai" I wince. You just promoted more poor quality bonsai trees to be put on the market. This is not unlike the pet world where people buy puppies at pet stores that usually get their puppies from puppy farms. Caring dog owner forums complain about these puppy farm sales all the time. It's heartbreaking to see the conditions of these places. Just like I'm sure it's heartbreaking to see the conditions that these bonsai are sold at.

A lady I spoke to about mallsai at one (to remain unnamed) home center told me that often people come in to buy them to replace gifts that they have killed. Repeat business.

She was actually a pretty responsible person who felt badly that no one there had any knowledge of bonsai care to pass on to the buyers. Their instructions are to tell people to "read the tag", and we know how bad that is.

[tombeur]

ones that have nervous systems, can feel pain,

Not to get political but .... wait (says he to himself) then why am I replying?

Cheers,

Steve

[Ryan_tree]

I received a Chinese Elm from Lowes as a gift........yeah.... This thing was in bad shape. I fixed it up though and I am sure come spring time, she will look young and healthy again. =)